Could the USSR have survived?

Clanrickard

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
447
Likes
112

A short article with 4 historians who are answering the question could the Societ Union have survived. I always believed like all dicattorships it could not. It was an economic basket case for a start so did not have what the equally dictatorial Chinese Communist party has which is a thriving economy. That too will fail. Personally as someone who ended up marrying an Eastern European girl I am damn glad this evil empire fell.
 
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
9
Likes
3
A good question, I suppose in a way it was like a snake that ate its tail. Had the USSR not chased the US in regards to the moon and Arms building, then maybe it would have survived.

It could have become an Eastern European Union type group of nations.
 

Clanrickard

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
447
Likes
112
A good question, I suppose in a way it was like a snake that ate its tail. Had the USSR not chased the US in regards to the moon and Arms building, then maybe it would have survived.

It could have become an Eastern European Union type group of nations.
For that to happen there would have had to have been a political sea change involving democracy and human rights.
 

Vargo Hoat

Member
Trusted Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 7, 2020
Messages
72
Likes
50
Location
Dublin
Like most things there were good and bad points.

Many elderly Russians, Moldovans, Belarussians etc bemoan the collapse of the Soviet Union (See Bald and Bankrupt's videos).
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Trusted Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
478
Likes
150
Of course the Soviet Union could have survived - just as China, Vietnam, the DPRK and Cuba have survived. The Soviet economy was actually very strong by today's standards. It had hardly any debt and huge reserves of natural resources. Even today, the life expectancy of the Russians has not climbed back up to what it was in 1970, after the catastrophe of the 1990s. The fall of the Soviet Union came down to one thing, the Soviet Communist Party lost its will to purge weak and corrupt members from its ranks, so that eventually it was headed by drunken criminals like Yeltsin and well meaning buffoons like Gorbachev.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Trusted Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
478
Likes
150
One thing that people forget is that in the first elections after 1990, the Communist Party won. That's why Yeltsin sent in tanks to bomb the elected Parliament in October 1993 - with the full support of the US Régime. Then in the Presidential election of 1996, the Communist candidate, Gennady Zhuganov, certainly won that election - but Yeltsin stole it by massive electoral fraud - again fully aided and abetted by the Clinton Régime. We also have to consider that even in Poland, the Communists were elected to government on a platform of stopping the privatizations and not joining NATO. The first thing they did in power was launch a huge campaign of privatizations - and joined NATO. So, it would be wrong to say the Communists in Poland were removed by popular will. It was more that they were removed by their own weakness and corruption.

 
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
9
Likes
3
For that to happen there would have had to have been a political sea change involving democracy and human rights.
I think that was coming anyhow, Gorbachev was a politician who promoted change, I think the USSR being bankrupt is what caused its demise, had they just concentrated on internal matters such as you mentioned and left America to be America then the USSR would still be around today.
 
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
9
Likes
3
Of course the Soviet Union could have survived - just as China, Vietnam, the DPRK and Cuba have survived. The Soviet economy was actually very strong by today's standards. It had hardly any debt and huge reserves of natural resources. Even today, the life expectancy of the Russians has not climbed back up to what it was in 1970, after the catastrophe of the 1990s. The fall of the Soviet Union came down to one thing, the Soviet Communist Party lost its will to purge weak and corrupt members from its ranks, so that eventually it was headed by drunken criminals like Yeltsin and well meaning buffoons like Gorbachev.
A good point, look at how successful China has become, North Korea could be similar if they just opened up a little.
 

Sunmaker

Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
60
Likes
47
China is a glowing example of how communism works, all the world's superpowers and democracies have to run to China when they want things built.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Trusted Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
478
Likes
150
I think that was coming anyhow, Gorbachev was a politician who promoted change, I think the USSR being bankrupt is what caused its demise, had they just concentrated on internal matters such as you mentioned and left America to be America then the USSR would still be around today.

But the Soviet Union really wasn't bankrupt. By the standards of Western economies today it was in great shape.
 

Clanrickard

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
447
Likes
112
China is a glowing example of how communism works, all the world's superpowers and democracies have to run to China when they want things built.
You might not think that if you were Uighur, Tibetan, a Hong Konger, Falun Gong, Democrat, Free Speech believer etc etc.
 

Clanrickard

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
447
Likes
112
But the Soviet Union really wasn't bankrupt. By the standards of Western economies today it was in great shape.
More rubbish from you. The place was a kip. Alcoholism was rampant. People had to queue for basic necessities. People were jailed on the flimsiest of charges. There was intermittent electricity. IN some places there was no running water. There was mass unemployment. The place was ready to collapse and Gorby knew this. North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela have all gone down that well worn path of socialism and are paying the dreadful price.
 

Clanrickard

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
447
Likes
112
One thing that people forget is that in the first elections after 1990, the Communist Party won. That's why Yeltsin sent in tanks to bomb the elected Parliament in October 1993 - with the full support of the US Régime. Then in the Presidential election of 1996, the Communist candidate, Gennady Zhuganov, certainly won that election - but Yeltsin stole it by massive electoral fraud - again fully aided and abetted by the Clinton Régime. We also have to consider that even in Poland, the Communists were elected to government on a platform of stopping the privatizations and not joining NATO. The first thing they did in power was launch a huge campaign of privatizations - and joined NATO. So, it would be wrong to say the Communists in Poland were removed by popular will. It was more that they were removed by their own weakness and corruption.

You are beyond stupid. Being married to someone from the ara and having lived and speaking the language I can tell you know feck all about Eastern Europe. The fact you are lucky enough to live in a free country where you can enjoy a standard of living the Slavs could only dram of under Communism marks you out as either really really thick of a really bad wind up merchant.
 

Clanrickard

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
447
Likes
112
Of course the Soviet Union could have survived - just as China, Vietnam, the DPRK and Cuba have survived. The Soviet economy was actually very strong by today's standards. It had hardly any debt and huge reserves of natural resources. Even today, the life expectancy of the Russians has not climbed back up to what it was in 1970, after the catastrophe of the 1990s. The fall of the Soviet Union came down to one thing, the Soviet Communist Party lost its will to purge weak and corrupt members from its ranks, so that eventually it was headed by drunken criminals like Yeltsin and well meaning buffoons like Gorbachev.
An utter and total lie https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/life-expectancy
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Trusted Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
478
Likes
150
You are beyond stupid. Being married to someone from the ara and having lived and speaking the language I can tell you know feck all about Eastern Europe. The fact you are lucky enough to live in a free country where you can enjoy a standard of living the Slavs could only dram of under Communism marks you out as either really really thick of a really bad wind up merchant.

I thought you were married to an African.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Trusted Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
478
Likes
150
More rubbish from you. The place was a kip. Alcoholism was rampant. People had to queue for basic necessities. People were jailed on the flimsiest of charges. There was intermittent electricity. IN some places there was no running water. There was mass unemployment. The place was ready to collapse and Gorby knew this. North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela have all gone down that well worn path of socialism and are paying the dreadful price.

You're clearly describing Thatcherite Britain there, not the Soviet Union.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Trusted Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
478
Likes
150
The fact you are lucky enough to live in a free country where you can enjoy a standard of living the Slavs could only dram of under Communism marks you out as either really really thick of a really bad wind up merchant.
I know that a lot of cheap employers and sexual abusers are very happy that the Berlin Wall came down. It's not so good for anyone else.
 

Olli Rehn

Member
Local time
Today, 12:21
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
690
Likes
169
So did everyone else. A top secret memorandum has been sent to Intelligence Commissar Valamic a chara

So Detective Sergeant Val M.artin was not only a guard- but also a KGB officer? What a scumbag!
 
Top